Sheila Jordan Part Three
– Harvie S On Tap
Welcome back to the third and final installment of our special “On Tap with Harvie S” series, broadcasting from Sacred Heart University. In this episode, I wrap up my conversation with the incredible guitarist Joe Carter as we continue to explore my musical life with Sheila Jordan. We’ve covered how I discovered her music and how our duo began, but today we are getting into the nitty-gritty of how we actually made that unique bass-and-voice format work for over fourteen years.
As Joe points out in this episode, a strict bass and voice duo was a fairly radical concept in the 1970s. While you might hear a bassist and vocalist take a few measures alone during a larger set, the idea of carrying an entire concert without a chordal instrument like a piano or guitar was almost unheard of. Joe notes that while he was used to guitar duos, the idea of stripping a performance down to just the low end and the vocal line was something that immediately caught his attention back then.
One thing Joe pointed out was that our performances always seemed effortless. I had to laugh, because while it might have looked easy, it took a lot of work on my end to figure out how not to be an entire orchestra. When you are the only instrument supporting a singer, the temptation is to overplay—to fill every silence with sound. I had to learn to create sketches and introductions that gave Sheila the roadmap she needed without cluttering the space.
We developed a level of trust that allowed us to take risks every single night. In fourteen years, we never repeated a set list. We would decide on an opener, but after that, we just let the music take us where it wanted to go. I never used sheet music on stage because I wanted to be fully present in the moment. As Joe eloquently put it, we were trying to lay down a blueprint for the art of the duo: not overplaying, not underplaying, but finding that perfect balance.
In fact, Sheila and I used to joke that we were actually a trio. The third member of the band was “The Invisible Man”—the silence and space between the notes. Because Sheila is such a powerhouse vocalist, she didn’t need me to hold her hand through the changes. She could hold a pitch perfectly against silence or dissonance, much like she did on those early George Russell records. That freedom allowed me to play just one right note instead of a flurry of them.
We also took a trip down memory lane to the night we actually met. I had been searching for Sheila in New York for ages with no luck. I was playing a gig with Lee Konitz at a spot we jokingly called “The Loneliest Place” (formerly the Half Note). Lee saw Sheila in the audience and invited her up. In true improvised fashion, we somehow ended up performing a spontaneous song about liverwurst. It was wild, crazy, and cemented an instant connection. She called me “kid” and asked if I wanted to gig with her; I ended up driving her home in my beat-up car, and the rest is history.
Before the duo took center stage, we spent time touring the world as part of the Steve Kuhn Quartet. Joe reminisced about seeing our records on the ECM label and viewing us as the model of a successful, working jazz group. It was a special time with Steve, Bob Moses, Sheila, and myself. Because we were so comfortable with one another, the on-stage chemistry often led to unscripted antics and comedy. You can’t fake that kind of fun; it only comes when you truly trust your bandmates.
Of course, the road wasn’t always smooth. I shared a story with Joe about a high-profile gig we played at the Corcoran Gallery in Washington, D.C. We had just been on NPR’s All Things Considered, but one audience member in the front row was not impressed. He kept making angry gestures because there was no piano. He couldn’t accept the duo format! Thankfully, our friend Joel Siegel sat right next to him during the second set to keep him in line. It just goes to show that you can’t please everyone, especially when you’re breaking new ground.
On a lighter note, I also shared a story about a misunderstanding in San Francisco. A secretary at a venue congratulated us, and we assumed she was talking about our new record. It turned out she had heard a rumor that Sheila and I had gotten married. Instead of a polite denial, Sheila made a “yuck” face and gestured at me as if the idea was repulsive! It was hilarious and perfectly summed up our relationship—we were like family, with all the teasing that comes with it.
As we wrap up this series, Joe asked me about the name of the podcast, “On Tap.” The idea is simple: it’s about getting stories straight from the source. Like a draft beer tastes better than one from a bottle, these stories are fresh, unfiltered, and not something you can find in a history book. They are the real, lived experiences of a life in jazz.
Thank you so much to Joe Carter for joining me at Sacred Heart University, and thank you all for listening to these memories of my time with Sheila Jordan. I hope you’ve enjoyed these stories as much as I’ve enjoyed telling them. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll continue to share the music and the moments that make this life so extraordinary.